File Name: Berl_Glotzer_recollections.mp3
Terry: You were in the 20s when you left Pinsk.
Berl: Right.
Terry: So, when were you born?
Berl: Uh, when was I geborn?
Terry: Yeah, when were you born? How, I forget how – I don't know how old you are.
Hannah?: Sit on there, [inaudible] [00:13].
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, oh yes.
[Crosstalk] [00:14]
Terry?: Were you in Pinsk when my mother was there? Berl, what I wanted to know is – do you remember my mother when she was in Pinsk, in 1913?
Berl: In town [inaudible] [0:25].
Terry: So, tell me about those days.
Hannah?: He wouldn't – he's so much younger.
Terry: But let's hear –
Berl: But I – I remember it a –
Speaker 1: You do remember. How old were you when you left Pinsk?
Berl: When I left again, I was in the 20s, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh, he was in the 20s.
Terry: All right, so tell me –
Berl: I was a big boy when we –
Terry: All right.
Berl: [Inaudible] [00:43]
Terry: My mother came to visit you and your family in Pinsk.
Berl: I'm not – you know, your grandparents, we'd write.
Terry: The Pom – the Pomerantzes
Berl: Almost – almost the same block.
Terry: That's what I want to hear more about, the Pomeranz'.
Berl: We – you are – you know, there was a river.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: Called Pina, and they were – that's where I lived.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: And we really barely just – around the corner from where they lived.
Terry: All right, so what I want to know is about the Pomeranz', how they lived, what the house was like.
Berl: As far as I remember them –
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: You see, we were very small children when we were living there. You know, your – your grandfather, he was what you call a –
Terry: [Foreign Word] [01:31]
Berl: A consultant – not a consultant, a – he – he was away a lot.
Terry: An adwokat?
Berl: An adwokat they called them.
Terry: Yes.
Berl: I don't know what you call it.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: [Foreign word] [01:42]
Terry: And his name was Itzhak Pomeranz.
Berl: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Terry: Do you know if he had any brothers or sisters?
Berl: I don't know much about it with them.
Terry: Yeah, yeah.
Berl: I don't know much about, but I remember he was the sick one.
Terry: The –
Berl: The –
Terry: The wife?
Berl: Yeah.
Terry: That was the second wife.
Berl: That was the second –
Terry: It's the second wife, yes.
Berl: It was the second?
Terry: Yes, yeah. Was it a nice house Berl?
Berl: It was – was, you know, a – a European style.
Terry: Did it go down to the river?
Berl: Yeah, that was only one block away.
Terry: Uh-huh, yeah.
Berl: We were on the edge of the – the river. It's like a, let's say uh, right here it's a street.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: And the river was right there. There – we – our house – house was just facing it, you see.
Terry: Yeah, yeah.
Berl: They lived a block away.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: A block away. And, you know, right next to it there was – there was a market place like.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: All the – all the peasants –
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: – from the surrounding uh –
Speaker 2: Villages.
Berl: – villages, use to come by – by canoes.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: You know.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: Bringing their – their – produce –
Terry: Yes.
Berl: – of all kinds and uh, potatoes and uh, all kind of produce.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: See, you know, you use to trade.
Terry: Yes.
Berl: And then they use to replenish.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: When we needed salt and herring, you know.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: And the Jewish stores were right around it.
Terry: Yes.
Berl: Eventually, they had something, you know, commercially to accomplish uh, some sales to be done. So, Zayde [phonetic] –
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: – he was – he was the – the legal authority as you see.
Terry: I see.
Berl: [Inaudible] [03:22], see.
Terry: Yeah. He was a nice looking man.
Berl: He was living [inaudible] [03:25] and he had to – to write a petition of some kind.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: He was –
Terry: A contract, is that –
Berl: A contract, a petition.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: That – that was his –
Terry: Yeah, yeah. So, I know my mother went back there in about 1913 – '14.
Berl: That's right. In fact, your mother –
Terry: Just before the war.
Berl: – your mother was there, I remembered that.
Terry: I see. Yeah.
Berl: She was present.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: You see, I was – I was very – nine years old [inaudible] [03:54].
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: And I remember as of now, your mother came to Pinsk, you know, she was a newly-married bride, you know, the gold eh –
Terry: Beautiful clothes, I hear.
Berl: – beautiful clothes, and she came, and she was sporting [phonetic]. She gave people around there tips. A quarter here, half a dollar here, and you – you remember.
Terry: Always like that. That was always how she was, right.
Berl: And then she was, you know, she was uh, kind, you know, with personality.
Terry: Oh yes.
Berl: You know, she [inaudible] [04:28].
Terry: Yes, yes. Did you know her sister Faigel?
Berl: Yes, sure.
Terry: Yes, and Faigel's husband Hershel?
Berl: Hershel, okay.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: He – he was a storekeeper.
Terry: Uh-huh. And what kind of store did he have, Hershel?
Berl: A grocery store.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: You see, he use to sell to the peasants.
Terry: Yes, uh-huh.
Berl: They lived, you see, Zayde[?] was inside the – there was a big place. So, they live in the background, but the stores were always to the front.
Terry: Front, yeah.
Berl: So, Faigel, you see – there was another one. There was Faigel's man –
Terry: Was Hershel.
Berl: – was Hershel, and they had another brother.
Terry: A brother.
Berl: They were older. They had already shaved, I remember now.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: [Inaudible] [5:11]
Terry: I think vaguely, that Hershel Pinski and his brother didn't get on very well.
Berl: Well, you know, it's always –
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: – there's always an occasion.
Terry: Yeah. Did you know anymore Pomeranz people besides my grandfather, Itzhak?
Berl: I don't remember.
Terry: Remember. I'm trying to find anymore Pomeranz that a –
Berl: Yeah, and here are a few of them, right – right here.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: They were only one – what was the name of the hospital with one of the apartments?
Terry: I don't know.
Berl: He came out of Mt. Sinai Hospital.
Terry: I don't know, Pomrinks [assumed spelling], that's Pomrink's.
Berl: But it's all the same family.
Terry: Was he from Pinsk also?
Berl: It's – it's – it's the same family because I remember mama told me once.
Terry: Really?
Berl: Yeah. He had that – that – he's got somebody there and –
Terry: I never knew that.
Berl: You could eh – you could check up at that time –
Terry: I'm going to – I know who he is.
Berl: [Inaudible] [05:53]
Terry: I know who he is, yes, yes.
Berl: It could be – could be – it could be the same family.
Terry: Uh-huh, uh-huh. So, you were in Pinsk during the war.
Berl: I was during the war in [?] and no too long we came because my father was taken – we lived by the –
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: – over there when the Germans came in and took the civil [phonetic] population.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: Living on the – on the – on the –
Terry: River. On the – the edge, yeah.
Berl: And they shooed them back.
Terry: Inland, yeah.
Berl: And over, there they put out signs, anybody caught there will be shot.
Terry: Oh, um-hum.
Berl: As it's bad because actually, three miles further was the Russians.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: – and the Germans that was stationed there, you know –
Terry: Yeah, in Pinsk.
Berl: So, papa happened to – to – to – to walk in and then they took to us what comfort as far as they're concerned because they'd be – and they got caught.
And they caught him and being you're a big family, so, they took us, and they sent us out back about 200 miles near Warsaw.
Terry: I see. Your whole family?
Berl: The whole family. They went –
Terry: Paula and Hodel and everybody?
Berl: They wanted to send only one but they say – when they returned they say, "Take the whole family." They set us up in the back.
Terry: And where did you stay when you went there?
Berl: So, here – here's what happened. When we got – first of all, they loaded us on freight trains.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: You know –
Terry: Yes.
Berl: – not – not passengers.
Terry: No.
Berl: They were freight trains. We were not only, we were one of the families but there were more of us because from that city, during the war, it they took [inaudible] [07:31] population and shipped them back. Because over there, there's, you know, they – they decide to shoot, you know, back-and-forth.
You know, it's a stationary position. So, they – they send us in – in the back, it's a village, villages around Warsaw. Over there it was different inland.
Terry: Yes, not near the river.
Berl: We [inaudible] [08:03].
Terry: Right.
Berl: It was different in one and maybe the position. In other words, the military positions were about 100 miles away so [inaudible] [08:14].
Terry: Yes.
Berl: With the enemy aliens, you know.
Terry: Yes.
Berl: You know, it was just like here, like they take – they took the Japanese –
Terry: Japanese, right.
Berl: And – and – the something, and so. And what they did was, the product from the villages, the Polish villages –
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: Every village had to take one family.
Terry: Right.
Berl: They took care of this.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: The Germans let –
Terry: Yes.
Berl: – that time they want I guess the Jews.
Terry: So, how many of your brothers and sisters were with you then?
Berl: Eh, there were – there was Viris [assumed spelling].
Terry: Paula.
Berl: Yeah. Paula was a very, very, very young.
Terry: Hodel.
Berl: Yeah, Paula, Hodel, and – and – and there was Raisl [assumed spelling]. Faigel was left because my uncle was left there.
Terry: I see.
Berl: He didn't want to leave everything [inaudible] [9:03], which she came later to join us and we – we – you were supported like, by the – by the village people.
Terry: Yep.
Berl: I remember that too. They'd chip in.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: [Yiddish?] [09:17]
Terry: And was this a Jewish family that put you up or a non-Jewish family?
Berl: No, not –
Terry: Non-Jewish.
Berl: Non-Jewish but to be kept – but they made sure, over there, the same way then was. There's a lot of people that I know, hey, they left empty houses.
Terry: Empty houses.
Berl: So, the just threw things in the attic to carry yourself. But for us, it was not too good because near a river, we could make a living. But over there, we couldn't make a living.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: And we don't want to be – we don't want to fall on the public –
Terry: Assistance.
Berl: Assistance. So we –
Terry: Now, so my mother was still in Pinsk, and you were transferred near [inaudible] [09:54].
Berl: Your mother, that was before the – before your mother ca-came back to America from Pinsk.
Terry: I see, yes, yes, yes.
Berl: I'll tell you when it was because that was the beginning 1914, [inaudible] [10:06].
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: Beginning of '15.
Terry: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Berl: I don't remember exactly which year. Mama came back '15?
Terry: About '15. I understand in Pinsk, it was terrible though. There was such hunger.
Berl: It was – naturally, there was the ration. But anyhow, we got – we got through there. They had a position they should [censor?] us through it. So, we got there, you know there was smuggling business.
In other words, you were – you were near a river – and I want to say [inaudible] [10:35], you know, you couldn't bring and carry so one sack a day.
Terry: [Inaudible] [10:39], uh-huh.
Berl: So, we had to buy our [sounds like pyjamas?] – they gave us two hours a night that you could smuggle them in.
Terry: Hmm.
Berl: And they had people buying for us on one side, and people –
Robert: This is where side B of the tape begins.
Berl: The – the people managed.
Terry: Managed.
Berl: Yes, we all were a big family, you know.
Terry: Yes, yes, yes.
Berl: And we were small but we – we all worked, during the night, we had to do all this dirty work, you know.
Terry: Um-hum, Um-hum.
Berl: So, we built our own bunks.
Terry: Right.
Berl: You know.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: And we smuggled it over. And that's how we – it was.
Terry: Were you involved at all in any of the political movements in Pinsk as a young man?
Berl: I was too young for that.
Terry: Too young, yes.
Berl: I was too young for that. When I came back –
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: – I came back, that was in the '20s.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: Anyway, I came back. Then, they started [inaudible] [11:29].
Terry: When did you go back from Warsaw back to Pinsk? Go back to –
Berl: That was in the revolution.
Terry: When was –
Berl: Russian revolution
Terry: Russian revolution, yeah, yeah.
Berl: So, over there, you know, they had some – some said, "Look, we had –" which is the every – every few months a different government there.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: Between the Russians and the Polish.
Terry: Polish, yeah.
Berl: And the – and the – the bands that they had [inaudible] [11:51] bands, they [foreign word] [11:54] you know.
Terry: Um-hum, yeah.
Berl: So, we had to be always on the – and every time we changed, there – there – there's violence.
Terry: Uh-huh, sure.
Berl: So they had to hide where that – that will do a lot of things. And then the fire, there was a couple of fires, they told me they were synagogues.
Terry: [Inaudible] [12:10]. I know one of the big synagogues, one of the big wooden Shuls –
Berl: Everything that was –
Terry: I understand those were beautiful.
Berl: Papa rebuild at least three times, they rebuild the Shuls.
Terry: Really?
Berl: [Inaudible] [12:18]
Terry: And I understand the Shuls were these beautiful wooden Shuls.
Berl: Oh, there was – not only wooden there, there was one [inaudible] [12:25] Shul. Anyway, it burned down somewhere. We had originally, the big cantors – they used to come around to make benefits.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: To rebuild a Shul.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: So, every – every week, every two weeks.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: They brought down a different Cantor.
Terry: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Berl: And they sold tickets, that's the way they rebuild it.
Terry: What street, was there a name of a street that the Pomerantz's' house was on?
Berl: I tell you, as far as a street, it was a market place. [Inaudible] [12:52] market place.
Terry: So it didn't have a [inaudible] [12:52].
Hannah: You want to a cup of coffee?
Berl: No.
Terry: The winters – the winters must have really been cold there. Berl, the winters there must have been –
Berl: Well, the winters, you know, when October came around – nine out of ten when the snow came down, it use to almost half a winter, all winter.
Terry: Um-hum. The river froze?
Berl: The river froze, everything went on – on top of the ice.
Terry: Ice boats.
Berl: And what we had there, you know, when the [inaudible] [13:26] came along, you know, a lot of movies today [inaudible] [13:29] and the horses, you know.
Terry: Yes.
Berl: At that time, we didn't have the cars or [inaudible] [13:33].
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: If you saw a car, maybe it passed.
Terry: And when they talk about the Pinskiya [baloty?].
Berl: Pinskiya baloty – that's a – it's a normal thing because, you know, first of all, it's marshes like you – like you have in Florida.
Terry: The marshes, yeah, the marshes.
Berl: Yeah, the marshes, the swamps.
Terry: Yeah, yeah.
Berl: I understand that they, the Russians dried it out [inaudible] [13:55]
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: And – and the – naturally, when it came the – like in the end of the early winter –
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: – everything's mushy, you know, [inaudible] [14:07].
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: [Inaudible] [14:07]
Terry: Boots.
Berl: That's the only way, you know. It was hard.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: If you used that, you used that, but it was a –
Terry: Today, we couldn't go back to that with hard days, with good days at the same –
Berl: I never knew –
Terry: [Inaudible] [14:22]
Berl: [Inaudible] [14:22]
Terry: Yes. Tell me – oh yeah. When they came to visit.
Berl: Came to visit, she was – I don't think she was six months old, six months. She wasn't a year.
Terry: Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah.
Berl: That was in 1911. I was very, very young.
Terry: Young.
Berl: But you know, there was – you know the –
Terry: [Inaudible] [14:47]
Berl: You know this young, young, young [inaudible] [14:50].
Terry: Yeah. But it was a good life. [Foreign language] [14:56]
Berl: Oh, sure.
Terry: Yeah, were still there in the brewery.
Berl: Sure, [inaudible] [15:00].
Terry: When we was in Israel, we tried to reach Bashevitz’s daughter, but she was on vacation then. I remember when I was with papa.
Berl: When I came – when we came back from – from exile what you call it. The Bashevitzes were there.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: We were in – and then the – the Russians came in. They had armies, and through the [inaudible] [15:33].
Terry: Now, what did your father do?
Berl: We had what you call [inaudible] [15:38]. You see, we had – we had boats.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: We had bathing places. Summer bathing, we had ice skating places. We had –
Terry: How about an icehouse? Did the Pomerantz's have an icehouse?
Berl: We had it, we had it.
Terry: You had the icehouse.
Berl: We had the ice.
Terry: I see.
Berl: We build it ourselves, the icehouse.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: I'll tell you why. Because [inaudible] [15:59] for it because right next to us, there was the meat market.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: Over there.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: And over there, they didn't never have any refrigeration 'cause they –
Terry: Of course, right.
Berl: Unless you had, let's say, you think the big business people [inaudible] [16:14]. If they killed an animal –
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: – and they salt part of it, the rest had to lay for [inaudible] [16:20] so they needed a place. So naturally [inaudible] [16:23]. And then you needed ice for the – for the sick people, you know, during the summer.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: It was a necessity. So, we started the – it's near us. We use to pick up cakes of ice, cakes.
Terry: From the river?
Berl: From the river. That was –
Terry: And where was the icehouse built, into the ground?
Berl: It – deep into the ground.
Terry: Deep into the ground.
Berl: Like a deep trench.
Terry: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Berl: A big trench.
Terry: And it kept all summer long?
Berl: And we use to cover it with – with – with straw, with this here.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: And they – it kept all summer long.
Terry: All summer long.
Berl: But we use to pile them up, you know. We use to feed the horses. We use the hooks. We use to cut them.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: Into [foreign word] [17:02].
Terry: Slabs, blocks, cubes.
Berl: And they used to bring it – bring it [inaudible] [17:06].
Terry: Uh-huh, uh-huh, um-hum.
Berl: That's – that's the way it was. That's the way for a lot of us. But it was, you know, you were young, you were – you had everything. All right, you have more comfort here, but – but – [inaudible] [17:21].
Terry: How about the spirit? The spirit was different, huh?
Berl: The spirit, it is easy. First of all – first of all, that's – over there, over here, it's a different type of life entirely. You see, everyone's trying to catch up someone.
Terry: Um-hum, yeah.
Berl: Over there, they – they use to call [inaudible] [17:39].
Terry: I know about Luria, the match stick fac – the match factory.
Berl: We knew his father was rich, his grandfather was rich. He has – he has to be rich. And there was another one called, [foreign word] [17:52 they call it.
Terry: Yeah, [foreign word] [17:53].
Berl: [Foreign word] [17:54]. What is [foreign word] [17:56] was a big [foreign word] [17:57].
Terry: Uh-huh, yeah.
Berl: So, you knew and no one's trying to catch-up to Luria, you know. And no one’s trying to catch up to Luria, you know.
Terry: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Berl: But over here, everybody's got cars.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: And everybody's trying to catch. That's your whole life you catch, you catch, you catch, you catch, you catch.
Terry: Catch, catch, and you never – you run, run, and you never catch-up.
Berl: Over there it's different. People work – people work [foreign word] [18:20].
Terry: In the match factory?
Berl: [Inaudible] [18:23]
Terry: Was that the biggest factory in Pinsk.
Berl: That's the biggest factory in Pinsk.
Terry: Yep, yep.
Berl: We – we work by ourselves because we – what we did, we use to buy, like this [inaudible] [18:35]. We use to prepare, you know. Over there, everybody heated their homes –
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: – with wood.
Terry: Yeah, yes.
Berl: That was hard work.
Terry: That was part of your business too, the wood.
Berl: Part of the business. So we use to pile up, you know.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: [Inaudible] [18:51] use to sell it [inaudible] [18:53].
Terry: So, you must have had a nice house?
Berl: We had a nice house, very beautiful house.
Terry: Beautiful house.
Berl: [Inaudible] [18:57] matter of fact, there is [inaudible] [19:01] in our day we use – we use to come in every day, the floors [inaudible] [19:05] and [Tyler?] was cleaning the house.
Terry: Yes, yes.
Berl: Although it was hard to keep it clean.
Terry: Sure.
Berl: But [inaudible] [19:10].
Terry: What was the floor made of?
Berl: Of plain wood.
Terry: Plain wood.
Berl: Plain – plain –
Terry: Prime wood, yeah.
Berl: Oh, prime wood.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: Every day it was – was wash the floor.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: And –
Terry: So, your mother worked hard.
Berl: You know – you know what – what my mother use to do. She use to have a day, every day – a day a week.
Terry: Um-hum
Berl: That she use to cater to the – to the poor people.
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: She use to cook.
Terry: Your mother.
Berl: My mother.
Terry: Your mother would cook for the poor people.
Berl: And make – and they use to come [inaudible] [19:41] house.
Terry: Yeah. In your house they would come?
Berl: In our house.
Terry: And what would she have, soup?
Berl: Soup, meats, and all these [inaudible] [19:48] that you have to –
Terry: And they would come to eat in your house?
Berl: They would come to eat. [Inaudible] [19:52]
Terry: One day a week.
Berl: One day a week. And my mother [inaudible] [19:56], you know. Over here, you know, some people [inaudible] [19:59], not there.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: There they – the less – the last three, they make a [inaudible] [20:06].
Terry: [Inaudible] [20:07]
Berl: [Inaudible] [20:08]
Terry: Right, right, right, right, right. I tell you, those are different days, right?
Berl: The view is different a little bit, huh. All right, we had more genuine people.
Terry: Yeah. But Pinsker people were special people in a way.
Berl: Pinsker people were a special people. You had that too, but I mean the portion like you see here, is not the best.
Terry: Uh-huh, yeah.
Berl: Yeah, like they live now in places in [inaudible] [20:35]. Now, there's a community of Hungarians.
Terry: Um-hum.
Berl: You know, you see them –
Terry: I see them, yeah.
Berl: Now, I wouldn't trust them.
Terry: Hmm.
Berl: As far as I could throw a piano with one hand. If you shake hands with them, you got to count your fingers when you pull them back.
[Crosstalk] [20:51]
Terry: Genuine and an intellectual, you had a learned group in Pinsk, too.
Berl: Oh, yeah. And then we had for instance, we had people – I remember, as a child we used to help – they used to carry all the goods you could get–
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: – and at night, they used to deliver, put it under the door –
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: – without letting know –
Terry: Know –
Berl: – where it came from.
Terry: –where it came.
Berl: There's [inaudible] [21:20].
Terry: That was another level of people, yeah.
Berl: That's what I'm saying, you got genuine.
Terry: Yes, yes.
Berl: It's not – it's not the –
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: – it's a different element and that's all. Here, here you take [inaudible] [21:33].
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: Take that Tully and Tully's father. If the way –
Terry: Now, Tully was your cousin?
Berl: First cousin.
Terry: First cousin, yeah.
Berl: Same thing as you are.
Terry: Now, Tully is my first cousin?
Berl: What?
Terry: Yeah.
Berl: First cousins.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Berl: Now, Tully is not your cousin, no.
Terry: No, he's not my cousin. I know.
Berl: I mean, he is with me.
Terry: Yes, with you.
Berl: On the father's side.
Terry: I know that, yes.
Berl: With, yeah, on your mother's side.
Terry: Yes, yes, yes.
Berl: It's – it's different. It's different, you see – yeah, I was in Tel Aviv. My cousin helped me, stopped and helped me and – and – and – and before that, we took a car, you know, and we run and shopped at a mall and I told his wife – what’s name is it.
Terry: I don't know.
Berl: [Inaudible] [22:25]. And she was with us. The next day, we were early to see the – all of a sudden, the [inaudible] [22:34]. It's a genuine time, I mean you see.
Terry: Genuine. Good to be a Pinsker.
Speaker 3: [Inaudible] [22:46]
Hannah: What did you – what did he say?
Terry: He – she – they met at a Pinsker ball. Was it from the Arbeitering Ball?
Berl: Yes, Pinsk ball –
Hannah: I must tell you –
Terry: No, they use to have the Pinsk Ball at the [inaudible] [22:57].
Speaker 4?: He says you took him there.
[Crosstalk] [23:03]
Terry: Where was it held? At the Webster Hall? At the Broadway Central?
Speaker 3: At the plaza.
Speaker 4: We were not at the Broadway Central. You were at John's wedding which was –
Terry: I would be too [inaudible] [23:16]. As a little girl, yes.
Speaker 4: Terry, now I'd thought I'd know. I have the picture.
Terry: Yeah, uh-huh.
[Crosstalk] [23:22]
Speaker 5: Just a little girl definitely.
Hannah: I was pregnant with Norman, four months.
Terry: Yes.
Hannah: And we were going to the ball. So, I said to Elizabeth, "I don't know what I'll wear." She says, "I have just the dress for you."
Speaker 4: Did she?
Hannah: She had a black dress.
Hannah: She had a black onyx if you remember and then a beautiful white lace gown. I put it on, it was beautiful. We were at the ball, Noza [phonetic] was one of the men up on the –
Terry: [Inaudible] [23:45], yeah.
Hannah: [Inaudible] [23:46]. And they said they wanted all the women to march around and around. [Inaudible] [23:52] or anything. So, we all marched. We marched, and we marched.
Finally, they took 10 of us out. And we marched, and they took five of us out. And then, the people said, "So, what's going to be now." He said, "Now, we'll select the prettiest woman." So, I went over to Lozer and I said, "I'm out of it." It's just as well, he didn't know I was pregnant [laughter].
See, that's Elizabeth's [inaudible] [24:16]. I said, "I'm pregnant." That's not nice, [inaudible] [24:20] girls. So, that was the Pinsker Ball. Another time, I went to the Pinsker Ball, and I was quite a dancer in those years, really, a terrific dancer.
My Ben didn't dance, but I had all the men dancing with me. So, two men and I danced all evening. My Ben, he was jealous, but he was tired because I said to him, "It doesn't mean anything, it's just that I like to dance. I don't care about the man." Well, they started calling me up. And they called, and they came a few times.
One was about ten years older which I know I was 15 and mama said to him, "Look, you might as well know she's only 15-years-old." He said, "She couldn't be." "Yeah, she's 15-years-old, and you might as well not come anymore because that's it." But I had some wonderful times with those people.
Anita?: You know, I asked Ben, "Where did your Ben die? In this apartment or where [inaudible] [25:18] used to live?
Hannah: No, now.
Terry: This apartment.
Speaker 3: He had a job over [inaudible] [25:23]. We never lived there. We have been [inaudible] [25:24].
Speaker 4: Yes, but I lived upstairs.
Speaker 3: Upstairs [inaudible] [25:27], yeah.
Terry: Yeah, at this apartment.
Speaker 3: Ben, I'm here 25 years. Ben was only gone 15 years. So, you've got another 25 years here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Ben said here, but I didn't remember.
Berl: Terry was very, very [inaudible] [25:41] public school.
Terry: Public school, when my sister was –
Speaker 4: I remember Anita on the picture. I don't what the year it was then.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: Ben, do you remember her [inaudible] [25:54]?
Berl: How could I forget her?
Terry: No, whether I was at the wedding, yeah.
Speaker 3: [Inaudible] [25:57] an American now.
Terry: Sixty.
Fred: I came – I came January 20th, 1929.
Speaker 3: 1929, I was pregnant with [inaudible] [26:07].
Speaker 5: But you know what he said. He says that he took you – you took him to the Pinsker ball because if you didn't, he would not meet me there.
Terry: Uh-huh.
Speaker 5: [Inaudible] [26:18] giving you credit or [inaudible] [26:21].
Speaker 4: [Inaudible] [26:22] either way.
Speaker 3: You know, we use to go out an awful lot.
Terry: Aunt Hannah once told me she use to go to City Island with my mother and father. They use to take her rowing.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Terry: Into City Island.
Speaker 3: Before your mother went with your father.
Terry: Yes.
Hannah 3: Her mother knew my sister, Ida. But the family knew each other, but we weren't friends, you know. I was a little girl, and one day my mo – my sister Ida came and says, "Mama –"
I told you that story. "There's a Pinsker girl, and her misses was moving, and she has no place to stay." You know, this may seem funny to you. And I might of been 9-years-old. I remembered mama – [inaudible] [27:04] [laughter].
Speaker 4: [Inaudible] [27:11] very much.
Hannah: And the kid had rosy cheeks, beautiful eyes, beautiful hair, a thin waistline, a big bosom, she was gorgeous and she stayed with us. [Inaudible] [27:27] I don't know where to put you so [inaudible] [27:30] in the living room.
She was with us two weeks, and mama said, "Darling, you'll have to find yourself a place. You can't live in the living room." And she had blouses were out of her handbag, which we didn't have so much room.
After a year, she said, "Well, how many closets were in the house?" We told her. She said, "No, let me stay, it doesn't matter." And I want to tell you something. Now, of course mama loved her, really and truly loved her. But when I look back, she was the ray of sunshine in our house.
Within a short while, we bought her – they already had a piano. We bought her a phonograph. We had records, and she and I took lessons, piano lessons. A lot of things that my family –
Speaker 5: How old was she?
Hannah: She said nine-years-old.
Terry: How old was mama [inaudible] [28:20]?
Speaker 5: Well, if Mama was born in 1888.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: So, she was older. And the truth of the matter is, that I had a lovely sister, I had loving sister, [inaudible] [28:31]. But whatever I might have [inaudible] [28:35].
Berl: [Inaudible] [28:35]
Terry: My – my mother, yes. [Inaudible] [28:37]
Berl: I was wondering, she already [inaudible] [28:37].
Hannah: Because she was a beautiful person. See, my mother was old. My mother had me at 46. So, you know, we looked upon [inaudible] [28:46].
Speaker 4: Forty-six?
Speaker 3: Mama was 45, 45 and 46 when she – I was ten years younger than my brother, Sol.
Berl: [Inaudible] [28:52]
Terry: Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, which made a big difference.
Terry: Yes.
Speaker 3: And they all treated me like the baby, which wasn't educational and that, so Elizabeth gave me more of what I had and she was a fantastic, fantastic woman. As I think back the years, um, I could see what a wonderful person she was.
Terry: She brought a kind of culture to your house with books, and magazines, and music.
Hannah: She had books, we had books, but it was a different type of book. Now, my daddy would every Saturday at [inaudible] [29:27] would get around the table, and there were a lot of bad Yiddish [inaudible] [29:31].
I would sit and listen. Well, she gave us more that I was able to use, which was good because after all, I was the younger edition. Anyway, that was your mother.