Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn

Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn was born about 1206 of Caernarvonshire, Wales.¹ She was the daughter of Llewelyn ap Iorwerth and Princess Joan (of England).¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn married Earl Donald (of Mar) about 1269 of Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn married Robert De Quincy, son of Saher IV De Quincy and Margaret De Harcourt.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn died before 24 October 1253 in Chester, Cheshire, England.¹
You have asked the $64,000 question. You have the two Helens wrong. The Helen that married [1] John le Scot and m[2] Robert de Quincey was the daughter of Joan. The other Helen is not a proven daughter of Llywelyn at all. You have assigned Gwladys to Joan instead of Tangwystl -- and I think that is fair. It is 50/50 at best that you are right -- and with Joan's lands going to Gwladys family and Gwladys dying at Windsor -- and the Mortimer genealogy going through Joan to William the Conqueror in a 14th century manuscript tradition, I would say the weight of the slim facts favor Joan over the Welsh mistress. Since you have to enter a mother, I would keep it that way. I will change my personal database from Tangwystl to Joan on the basis of this discussion. From: KHF333@aol.com.¹ She became the mother of Anne De Quincy about 1238.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Joane Quincy about 1240.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Hawise De Quincy about 1242.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Marjory (Margaret) (of Mar) about 1270.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Earl Gratney (Gartnet) (of Mar) in 1272.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Duncan (of Mar) in 1274.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Alexander (of Mar) in 1276.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Isabel (?) about 1278.¹ Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Mary (of Mar) in 1280.¹